and what happens when you lose the vice.
I know this is "duh" topic but I am having a terrible time with the smoking monkey. My mate, he wants me to quit, I only smoke about three times a day and have no desire to quit and though I go for days at a time without smoking and it is not a problem for some reason his desire for me to quit is charged and I am so defensive and angry. I am watching all of this, feeling this angst over being met with disapproval like some wacky punk faced teenager and I can't believe how I squirm. Is it just because he doesn't want me to smoke that I feel so desperate because it is bring some loathing of authority out, is it simply an addiction gone out of control. I am so tired of the inside of my brain on this matter. I have dissected every inch of why I like to smoke and why I do it and tried to cross reference it with his reasons for me to quit.
How many daemons were being kept out of sight with my smoke screen.
It is so un pc to smoke these days that I was really rounded out the edges on social outcast.
Good tool for separation from many forms of intimacy.
A punctuation of eating, conversations, tasks.
A cap to be put on a sadness or other unwanted feeling.
A time measure.
Has smoking always been considered a vice is this a new slant, another christian based tainting of what was once sacred.
I know cancer.
Any thoughts? Do all vices keep something back you wish to be protected from.
I know this is "duh" topic but I am having a terrible time with the smoking monkey. My mate, he wants me to quit, I only smoke about three times a day and have no desire to quit and though I go for days at a time without smoking and it is not a problem for some reason his desire for me to quit is charged and I am so defensive and angry. I am watching all of this, feeling this angst over being met with disapproval like some wacky punk faced teenager and I can't believe how I squirm. Is it just because he doesn't want me to smoke that I feel so desperate because it is bring some loathing of authority out, is it simply an addiction gone out of control. I am so tired of the inside of my brain on this matter. I have dissected every inch of why I like to smoke and why I do it and tried to cross reference it with his reasons for me to quit.
How many daemons were being kept out of sight with my smoke screen.
It is so un pc to smoke these days that I was really rounded out the edges on social outcast.
Good tool for separation from many forms of intimacy.
A punctuation of eating, conversations, tasks.
A cap to be put on a sadness or other unwanted feeling.
A time measure.
Has smoking always been considered a vice is this a new slant, another christian based tainting of what was once sacred.
I know cancer.
Any thoughts? Do all vices keep something back you wish to be protected from.
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Fri, March 16, 2007 - 6:27 PMIMO the stress this person is bringing to your life is more harmful than your smoking
love all-ways,
mem -
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Fri, March 16, 2007 - 7:43 PMAgreed. That is a huge under statement.
but, this person is central in my life. He won't ever be gone. All that can be done is for me to change my bit.
I am tired of talking about the smoking, I want to know what is beneath it. I want to know why he is stuck on this issue. I don't want to blame, make accusations, I want to understand why this seemingly small space feels like it could cause a split. Are we primed for this separation and this is the most handy vehicle to make it happen. This is for me a matter of principle and my lack of concession has caused a huge power shift. The cage is rattled. Power given removed has brought all the nasties out dancing. There was a time when I needed him to have control, to be watchful and hold me close. The time is over. I still want him to be with me but I can't be that other person any more. His purpose has changed.
Funny what you figure out once you start writing. Is it possible to make huge changes, take leaps and have the people in your life mold around the new shape, move at a similar pace. I have no role model of this, I have always left behind what could not keep up or change and it has been mostly without regret. I hold hope and light around making this journey with my mate. I have so much more compassion for the failure rate of marriage, relationships. Is there something in the stars because I am seeing many relationships end, there is a profound sorrow lurking about.
As always MaryEllen, thank you for your words.
Saidee
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Fri, March 16, 2007 - 9:24 PMSmoker's mouths taste SOOO FUCKING GROSS...I think smokers think that is just some anti-smoking propoganda, but its really really true. Its not like kissing an ashtray. Its like kissing an ashtray thats been spit in and stirred around.
Just remember that and maybe you'll not get so angry and defensive at your bf. Its really gross. -
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Fri, March 16, 2007 - 8:29 PMpersonally, I like kissing smokers & I'm not a smoker myself
I think trying to make people feel "bad" is a horrible way to improve anything ~ it's technically "black magic(k)" & has more unintended side effects than can justify the intent
love all-ways,
mem -
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Fri, March 16, 2007 - 8:31 PMfunny, the time change is still fucking with me
love all-ways,
mem -
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Fri, March 16, 2007 - 9:45 PMSo if you tell someone that something bothers you, your intent must be to make them feel bad?
I'll remember that next time I don't do the dishes and my roomates say something
"You really think making me feel bad is going to get me to do the dishes? Pfft!"
Smoker's mouths taste gross to a lot of people. Those of us who feel that way aren't lying to make people feel bad. They actually do taste bad to us. And yes, second hand smoke is not pleasant to breath. Sorry if it makes you feel bad.
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Fri, March 16, 2007 - 9:40 PMBTW...it has nothing to do with Christianity. Thats way out of left-field. Its raises the risk of several fatal and non-fatal (but gross) diseases by a significant amount, not to mention the people around you. Thats a pretty good basis for it to be considered "bad" on completely non-religious grounds.
Not to mention, there are people who are very sensitive to smoke, and second hand smoke will make them immedietly ill or atleast make for an unpleasant breath. Its a totally inconsiderate habit. Maybe your need for it outwieghs your desire to consider the effect it has on people around you?
Some people are OK with it, and can handle being around second-hand smoke (although their lung cells may not be too happy about it) but there are enough people that are really sensitive to it to fairly consider it an inconsiderate thing to do in public.
You seem to be blaming your boyfriend because it bothers him. There are likely only two possible reasons it bothers him:
A)It actually physically bothers him, because of the taste of your mouth, or because he's sensitive to it, and breathing it in is unpleasant for him.
or
B)It doesn't really bother him much, but he's worried about your health.
Either way, your irritated?
I think the problem is since smokers are used to smoke--it doesn't bother them obviously or they wouldn't smoke--they just assume it doesn't bother anyone else, and chalk all the negative reviews to "anti-smoking propoganda" and all the people who say anything are just influenced by all those anti-smoking ads. Thats not really the case. It really is a nasty thing to smell and taste for a lot of non-smokers. -
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Sat, March 17, 2007 - 8:11 PMOuch, this is touchy. I think I should clairfy a few things because this is not as black and white as the smokers versus the non smokers. And what I am working out is not the physicality of the issue although I know it has a weighty side in the issue. My husband is a smoker. He has recently quit. He is a very different smoker then I am, he would smoke all day long as he worked and long into the night. He was a smoker with widespread double standards. I am over joyed that he has quit. His issues with me as a smoker have reached back far into our relationship. We used to smoke different brands and he complained about the smell of my tobacco so I switched to the kind he used and then he complained about the papers I used and so I used what he used because it was all the same to me. Then he complained about when I would smoke. He pushed me into quitting a few times but it was never my decision and so I would start again. On and on this went until I just decided this issue was merely a device. To what end he uses it I am not entirely sure. It is control but where does it come from, what is the need to control stemming from, how else does it play out in our lives.
I smoke alone.
I smoke in my own time, outside, alone. It is mine. There are no people around me. I make all sorts of concessions for my mate and his various habits and needs. I would never place my will on another person in this way. I am not blaming him for being bothered, I am troubled by his insistance and his chipping away at my free will in these tiny ways, I am hurt that I am not given the same type of space and respect to manage my own bag. I am very respectful of him and his needs. It feels like there are measures in place invisible to me for him to decide if I love him and that is crap.
I know smoking is gross and in my own time I will stop.
I love my fella and if quitting were an ultimatum, it would be an ugly wrestling match but I know I would for him. I have perspective on it. I just want to know what the hot poker is that makes him so crazy because I know it's not about the smoking and it would be replaced by some other issue and the dynamic would continued to be played out.
I have a great love for smoking as I am sure a junkie has for heroin.
This has become very different then my topic infers.
I think I have figured a few things out here so I leave it. Thank you again Mary Ellen for your words. And thanks Brentt for giving voice to the obvious nastiness of smoking. I agree with MaryEllen about trying to get people to change by making them feel bad, it is so shaming, so separating, it's not constructive. It feels like something else is being played out, not all of the cards are on the table. -
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Sat, March 24, 2007 - 10:58 AMIt indeed sounds like the issue with your husband has very little to do with smoking. I think you hit it on the head when you said it's about control, especially with the bit of smoking history you just revealed. There may not be any specific reason why he's trying to control you, he may just have a deep seated need. If he feels his control over you slipping because of your personal evolution he definitely will try to re-exert his control/mastery of you in whatever way he can. He may be trying to compensate for a lack of control of himself, or he just may like being in charge, being the dominant.
You said you've changed, that your need for his control has changed. Think about all the other ways he exerts his control over your life and decide if that's what you still want. Have you grown to a place where you want his companionship as an equal rather than as a dominant? Do you still want him to be dominant but in different ways? Maybe broach that wider subject rather than trying to figure out what the issue is with the narrower subject of smoking.
Bringing both of your needs out into the open is the first step in finding compromise, or discovering that compromise is not possible. If he's not willing to open up at first, start off by telling him the things you need. Especially the things you need from him. Hopefully this will get him to open up, or at least not feel as threatened by the new you. If you get nothing from him and nothing changes in his manner toward you, count that as a very loud warning bell. -
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Fri, April 6, 2007 - 11:46 AMUm. i was just planning on answering the question.
Vices?
Hot baths.
Beers at home
retail therapy
I mostly don't. I face my stuff, or go to sleep, or watch Buffy until the time I can face it has come.
On another note, I don't like kissing smokers, but anyone I've dated deals with the breath thing, and the rest...well...*shrugs*
welcome to unconditional acceptance.
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 1:16 PMthank you, Promise. I needed to hear 'welcome to unconditional acceptance' todae. -
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 9:31 AMsure thing, sweetie. I know you are trying hard.
My best friend has been a smoker for the whole 15 years I've known her. The best she's ever managed to get down to is 1 a week. I have stopped trying to talk with her about it-she's a grown woman and she knows how bad it is. Fact is, we are all going to die/be ill eventually, and we *each* make our *own* choices about it. I do things she doesn't like, either. At least she exercises 2-3 times a week,. and its usually Bikram yoga. :D
Me, I don't work out at all!
See what I mean>?
Anyway, the point is, that for the LONG haul, its your body.
And if you are taking care of your breath (no ashtray feeling for him), then what's the big what?
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 9:40 AMI also would like to respond to the original question. I think the control issues with your mate are a completely different thread.
I am an x-smoker. I quit almost 12 years ago. Best thing I ever did for myself.
Why did I smoke? Smoking gave me so many excuses to check out of any situation where I found myself too uncomfortable or vulnerable. (Excuse me I need to step outside and have a smoke) I definitely used to smoke my feelings. Often my cravings for nicotine would kick in strongly during very emotional moments doing 2 things, distracting me from what I was feeling and replacing that feeling with a substance and giving me an excuse to leave and step outside. Once the smoke was finished I would resume my previous activity with emotional detachment and distance. I honestly do not know if the true addiction for the substance was coming out here or if my brain was so conditioned to use it as an excuse to escape emotional situations. Maybe there is no difference.
When i quit the hardest part for me was managing my emotions. I found myself often crying in public. Not always from sadness but more often from being moved by something. I would be talking to someone and think " aw, man that was sooo deep." and I would just start crying. It took me a long time to moderate myself emotionally without cigarettes and I was shocked with how much baggage I was "smoking". I sometimes still cry in public and I'm glad that I don't smoke. Sometimes I give myself permission to just step outside and breathe. -
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Thu, January 31, 2008 - 4:32 PMIt's been almost a year since I started this post.
Our changes as a family and a couple have been profound.
We have a new baby, needless to say I quit smoking about nine months ago and have yet to desire picking it back up. I agree with you rain about smoking, it is a crutch, a punctuation that gives form to life, it is an escape, a barrier, a shift in energy that allows you to compartamentalize events and feelings. It is a powerful addiction. I makes life fun say the ad images, it gives you brooding depth say the movies, it laughs in the face of mortality.
I miss it sometimes, a waft of a freshly lit smoke, a comraderie and seeming intamacy of sharing a stoop.
I don't think I will be seduced again.
I was a funny smoke, very take it or leave. Days could pass without an urge.
It was a brick in neighborly best friend relationship and it was a much needed seperater from a long mommy day and yes a controlling spouse.
sorry for the spelling errors one handed baby nursing typing
He has been working on his control freak bag, many events came forward to force this upon him, to shed light on it in a more direct manner then our layered relationship would allow at first.
He treats me like an equal, he no longer questions my every move and if he begins to he owns it.
I feel like the cards are on the table. What's mine is mine and vise versa with him. I feel like you are holding each other these days and it is a good place to be. It has love in it instead of fear and we laugh with each other instead of react. I want to be with him more then anyone else for the most part.
We are coming into our 10th year of marriage and another 5 years or so of being together before that.
It is a choice to be married and a lot of freaking work sometimes.
So smoking is a nasty devil. I wish it wasn't. Was it always before white people desouled it.
Thanks for all of your responses even the ashtray rant.
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Sun, February 3, 2008 - 9:44 PMIt is interesting. My sweetheart is trying to quit, and of course I support him because I love him and want him to be healthy . . . but . . . I so associate everything I find sexy about him (his smell, his taste) with smoke that even though I really do support his desire to quit, I love kissing his smoky mouth (I am not a smoker, but love kissing smokers. A fetish?) and burying my nose in his smoky hair that smells of his manly scent and smoked mixed together. So despite what I say, I'm probably not being as supportive as I could .
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Tue, February 5, 2008 - 12:24 PMIt feels good to read this report on how you have grown through this, both you and your husband.
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Sat, March 1, 2008 - 3:07 PMsounds to much like licking an ashtray in a bus stop mens room.
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Re: what vice do you use to keep your terrors at bay
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 8:24 PMThe advice given by Abraham-Hicks (poorly paraphrased here), hold to any thought that allows you to feel better, and abandon any thought that does not.
