Children and Fatherhood-

topic posted Thu, July 14, 2005 - 12:03 PM by  =^..^=
Wondering if any and all of you could help me with something:

I am afraid of becoming a parent... not just because I see this world becoming a darker place, but because I saw both of my folks destroy each other. I'm fear being a parent who's child is uncontrolable, or worse yet, upon reaching some degree of maturity, offspring who resent me. I dread having a son or daughter who would embody everything I dispise about the world today.. .. .. and these fears are making a current relationship very very shaky.
Please Help.
Thank you all.
posted by:
=^..^=
SF Bay Area
  • Re: Children and Fatherhood-

    Thu, July 14, 2005 - 12:30 PM
    I am not a parent, but here's my theory:

    I think the best thing we can do for lives in our care is to own our "stuff," to establish and observe good boundaries.

    That means taking responsibility for one's choices *and* one's feelings.

    I think that the principles they talk about in Al-Anon can be very helpful, and those principles are echoed in Ruiz's book The Four Agreements.

    If you take ownership of your own stuff, then what would there be for your kids to resent you for?

    If you set and observe good boundaries, then you're likely to be maintaining a functional amount of control, and there's little reason for the children--or anybody else--in your household to be out of control.

    What's the source of your spirituality? Cultivating that is likely to help keep you grounded and centered.

    What inspires you? Myself, I get a lot from some of the old standbys: the Desiderata, The Prophet, Kipling's "If"... as well as the principles I've gleaned from the 12-step movement. Just knowing them, I think, changes my consciousness.

    Keeping to a minimum the "inebriating concoctions" you mention in your profile might be useful, too, depending on your use of them. Numbing out is not a good way of keeping tabs on our "stuff," generally.

    Just thots. Take what you like, and leave the rest. Grains of salt are over there, if you want any...

    blessings

    Khrysso
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Children and Fatherhood-

      Fri, July 15, 2005 - 8:53 PM
      Khrysso wrote: "What inspires you? Myself, I get a lot from some of the old standbys: the Desiderata, The Prophet..."

      I have a Desiderata poster hanging on the wall in this room, and Kahlil Gibran's "The Prophet" on the bookshelf. As a parent of two girls, this passage from "The Prophet" moves me deeply:

      And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, Speak to us of Children.
      And he said:
      Your children are not your children.
      They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
      They come through you but not from you,
      And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
      You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
      For they have their own thoughts.
      You may house their bodies but not their souls,
      For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
      You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
      For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
      You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
      The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
      Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
      For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
  • Re: Children and Fatherhood-

    Thu, July 14, 2005 - 5:59 PM
    I think you should definitely work on yourself before you have a child. You shouldn't have chileren until you are comfortable with the world the darkness and all--and that is possible.
  • eva
    eva
    offline 3

    Re: Children and Fatherhood-

    Sun, July 24, 2005 - 3:44 AM
    If you don't mind me weighing in...I am another person who is at times deeply troubled by the thought of having children in the near future. I had an assortment of fears that pretty much occupied all areas. First, I thought that I would be a bad parent and that my children would resent me. But upon closer inspection, I came to the opinion that those particular feelings came from the issues that I had to resolve with my parents. I was convinced that all the ghosts that haunted me in adulthood would be inherited to my children, but over time I realized that just as I walk a different path than my parents, my child will walk a different path than I did. As for children being uncontrollable; my opinion is that if a child is not just "loved" and "cared" for, but more importantly; look after, dealt with and interacted with on a consistant and sincere basis they tend to fare pretty well in the behavior department as well as having a more stable sense of safety, belonging and direction when they walk their own path in life. Just try to provide them with a strong, safe but flexible vessle that allows them to grow. As with any decision you must make in life, you are only obligated to take on step at a time when walking your path. You set the pace and decide the direction, anything else outside those two points are out of your control and you have to let them be.
    • Re: Children and Fatherhood-

      Tue, July 26, 2005 - 1:05 PM
      I like the poem very much, I wish my own parents would have understood those ideas when I was young.

      Your partner's wishes may also just be different from yours. If this is the case, no amount of soul-searching or owning up or whatever is going to make you want children when/if you don't feel it is your calling or purpose to have them. Being a parent isn't the only way to have a meaningful life!!!

      As for shaping the future...I have had teachers and relatives who were not my parents who have had profound influence on me which was necessary to my development as a person. My deceased auntie who never had any children still shows up in my dreams, teaching me and being there for me. And what about art, writing, music, scientific discovery, invention? These things and the people through which they come shape the future as well.
  • Re: Children and Fatherhood-

    Fri, November 4, 2005 - 6:04 PM
    being scared an fearfull is a big part of irational action, i'm a mama and i know the fears that come along with the task of being a parent and they don't go away, as soon as you think you've got it down a new fear presents it self the only thing that is certain in life as it seems to me is change and if your willing move forward with as much trust and honesty as you've got to give it's the best any human can do and there are a few good ones (humans)out there, at least that i've met... if your freakin out thinkin it's goin to fall to shit then of course it's gonna...if that's all you put into it that's what you'll create, take deep breaths an take it as it comes cause it doesn't all hapen at once...
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Children and Fatherhood-

      Fri, November 4, 2005 - 7:01 PM
      All of the fears you have are real and normal. These fears will take on a different tone once the kids come along. You will no longer think of the issues you listed in terms of how they effect you, but rather, how they effect your child. The pondering of the question releases the fear.

      Honestly, you won't have time to worry about ruining them. You will be so full of fear on other fronts, but they will no longer be self centered. You will find that you will go to the wall in an effort to make your child as happy and well adjusted as can be.
      • Re: Children and Fatherhood-

        Sun, February 26, 2006 - 2:10 AM
        My father summed up his parental philosophy in 7 words. "Make them laugh. Teach them good things".

        I understand your anxiety because I became a father at 18. Fear is a natural part of change. Especially when the consequences of your choices force you to either step up or run away. To become or to hide. But the truth is that no one is ever completely ready to be a parent. Age has not helped many older parents I have met. Love is the universal. Fill your life with people who share laughter, love and wisdom and become a funnel for your child.

        Once you hold your child in your arms and stand in awe at how much you can love another human being, you will know. Make that love your purpose. Recognize your place in the history of your ancestors. Struggle to create a better world for future generations to live in. Go down swinging if need be.

        When you get stressed and exhausted, return to your love for your child. Don't let the small stuff blind your vision. Remember that forgiving yourself is the first step towards picking up the reins again. There is no such thing as a perfect parent, or a perfect person for that matter. But good people keep trying, holding on to hope and each other.

        peace
        • Re: Children and Fatherhood-

          Mon, February 27, 2006 - 8:40 AM
          amazingly profound words... my thanks to you.
          • Re: Children and Fatherhood-

            Thu, June 8, 2006 - 6:29 PM
            Wow Praxis, thank you. good words.

            My childrens father chose to run away but I have never regretted our decision to have children.

            My oldest daughter was 2 and my youngest was 10 months old when Sept 11 happened. I turned off all media in my house and went downstairs and layed on the floor while my little kids crawled around. I was waiting to know what to do. I thought to myself 'maybe i shouldn't have brought them into this fucked up world. Then I layed there and watched them play and i had hope for the world.

            My kids have grown on and are amazing young people. They are both in an immersion program and are well on their way to being fluent in Mandarin. They view themselves as international citizens. They also at times throw tantrums in the store and are "out of control". That's life and kids quickly teach you that control is a relative idea anyway.

            I believe in the future and I believe in our kids across the globe. i feel like the world is a safer place because they are in it.

            Peace
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Children and Fatherhood-

    Sun, September 24, 2006 - 9:31 PM
    I am a mother of two. I always knew I would have children. It was the only thing I knew for sure. I had been gathering the items for my list of what I would never do and it was long. I had no healthy model for parenting or for having a partner but I felt in touch with my instincts and knew so intimately what not to do that I felt some confidence. I can tell you that no matter how many ducks you'd like to have in a row or how many issues you think you want to work out it will never be enough. Having your heart cracked open and remade by a child coming to your life is a great healer and a pandoras box all in one. You are bombarded by issues you never were aware of, memories long suppressed, expectations thrown out the window with the swift arm of a wild banshee. And on top of it all is the way time morphs into this quickening pace and you have to be zen like in seeing the stuff, and letting it pass by because in the first few years there is no time to focus on yourself not to mention the fact that you are unrecognizable to yourself. With each child comes a gift of a lesson or a healing in how you view life. It's amazing to me that so many people do this act of having children and raising them in all their different ways and we survive. I have to agree that children belong to the world to themselves, we are merely a vessel through which they pass and facilitators and guides. The personality is in there from the start, the karma to be played out perhaps. I try to be honest with my children, to equip them to be good problem solvers and thinkers, to be filled with awe, to teach them compassion and humility through my actions. It is that, teaching through my actions, modeling behavior that I hope to instill in them that has made me a better person in this world. we can speak all we want to them but they are the true seers of action is truth. That is scary, they see it all and know when you are full of shit and I hope they don't come of age thinking I am full of shit. You have to step up and be the person you hope them to be and admit your struggles when you are failing. Running neck and neck to this struggle there is this silliness, dancing, eye rolling, tongue waggling good time and if you can be present and let yourself be available and a team member you are in for life standing still and being awash in your true nature with people you love just like when you were a kid free to just be. I think all of your fears are very valid and you should take the space to work it out but there will never be a perfect time and you will never be the prepared father. When I was in the first trimester of my pregnancy and freaking out my mother said to me "think of it like you have just taken the tab of acid, there is no turning back, you must square your shoulders, put you head up and go with it." She was so right because it has been one hell of a trip so far. I had these children with a reluctant mate. He knew that to be with me meant having children, he never wanted to have children but he wanted to be with me, he was 40 when our son was born. It was hard to be with someone who was still unsure and afraid and resentful and to share and parent. By the time our daughter was born he wasn't exactly Mr. Mom but he was more tuned in and sure of it all and would like many more if I am willing. You just don't know and it's an uncomfortable place to be. I remember thinking that if he was unsure about having children that maybe I wasn't the right girl for him because if he was in love and committed he would be able to do it without fear and doubt, that was a foolish measure for his love. I guess in the end he wanted to give me anything he could to make me happy and that was the bottom line. He could let me go to make this happen with someone else or be the papa.
    I wish you luck in your figuring, I wish you the time and space to work it out. I hate to get icky hippie but it's love and you really keep coming back to that place. I could go on and on. My experience around being a parent has been so profound. I would think that is the case for everyone. It's being in the trenches. It's so not glamorous but you get to talk about butts and boogers. And one last thing. YOU ARE NOT YOUR PARENTS, YOU ARE NOT EVEN THE SUM OF THEIR MISTAKES AND ISSUES, YOU WERE A WITNESS OF SORTS TO THE CHOICES THEY MADE BUT THEIR CHOICES DID NOT MAKE YOU IF YOU DECIDE OTHERWISE.
    • Re: Children and Fatherhood-

      Fri, May 18, 2007 - 6:46 PM
      What if you're most afraid that parenthood will be a cage, and that I would resent the kid(s) for taking my freedom?
      • Re: Children and Fatherhood-

        Mon, May 21, 2007 - 2:02 PM
        I do not have children, but as to your last remark, Be-in, may I suggest:

        Instead of seeing it as a "cage", think of it as jumping the fence from property that you know, onto property that you don't. It could be just as large, vast, lush, and fufilling, just in a different way.

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